phonics pathways 学习专题贴

ouyiyang

瑜伽你好，总自己下载了这本书在研究，不过看得有点混， 之前上学是学的国际音标，现在看是总是第一反应为自己认为的发音，如 I 读/ai/。
现在看了这本书时，有些不清楚究竟是写出的单词，还是写的发音类似国际音标，是否方框中给出的练习的是发音类似国际音标的，最下面的单词才是写的单词？

jerryhao

原帖由 wangkunqi 于 2012-7-13 20:57 发表
今天学习完成了P40-P44的Cc Kk ck。
有个问题，比如cup,按现在的发音是/cup/但是实际发音不是这个，应该怎么教孩子？类似的还有can，等等

你和后面的人一样，一定是遇到音标问题了，呵呵，很多书上的音标和我们以前学的估计音标不一样，给你们一份对照表，自己去对照吧。
Phonicss是不讲究实用音标的，归为一类的都是发音规律相同的。

wangkunqi

谢谢楼主提供的资料和答疑他，谢谢楼上的，继续学习，继续教孩子。

wangkunqi

请教：孩子能跟着学念和认识，并且可以跟着读音写出来，是不是就可以了，需要记住这是什么元音和辅音之类的吗？


正常学校学习的都是国际英标吧。

北京功夫熊猫

谢谢，新来乍到，多多学习

瑜珈

不需要记住这是什么元音，那是什么辅音。

国际音标是表示读音的符号，我真的不知道我们为什么老是拉着音标不放。

我们学英语不是从音标开始的呀。孩子在学音标前，是不是就会说apple这个词了呢？大概两三岁父母就教孩子说apple了。会说apple，不是就会发出a的那个短元音了吗？至于它是写成/æ/，还是/ă/ ,都是表示一个东西。如何说不知道那个符号表示的是什么音，你看例词啊，你会读那个单词的呀，那不就知道读什么音了吗？再倒过来不是就认识那个符号了吗？ 比如egg，你不是就知道/e/ 就是表示 e 那个短元音的发音了吗？

phonics是将字母或字母组合跟音对应起来，不是跟音标符号对应起来。

前面我也讲过的，你不需要让孩子记那个音标符号，除非你现在就要让孩子用美国字典的。

如果你不知道自己音读得对不对，网上发音视频很多的，可以看，甭管是什么符号，44个音都是一样的，不管是国际音标还是其它音标。

看看这里，有多少种音标？同一个音有多少种表示法：

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_respelling_for_English

请大家学习phonics，不要纠结那个符号。

[ 本帖最后由 瑜珈 于 2012-7-18 12:52 编辑 ]

zhangjp_jj

亲爱的瑜珈：
总是惦记着到这个帖子来看看更新或者别的妈妈提的问题。
孩子现在已经开始在张老师那儿学习phonic

但是孩子很是很纠结，比如ee ea ei 都是发[i:]的音，孩子问，我怎么知道什么时候该写ee 还是ea等等

我是英盲，这一块规律也不太知道。

目前我跟她说的是：都是发一样的音，但实际听或者写的过程中，你自己的脑袋会根据情况判断

我说的意思是，孩子如果养成了营业思维，会下意识的知道这个时候是什么意思，从而知道用什么单词

这样解释对吗？

wherezhang

我们用这个教材大概十天了，本着每天十分钟的原则，进度很慢，才读到35页，所以觉得没什么好说的。而且这遍是复习，拼写练习是新加入的，暂时还没有遇到什么困难。

往后面去，肯定会遇到困难的，肯定要来向瑜珈请教。

瑜珈

不知道你用的是哪本教材？

这种问题，不光我们的孩子会问，外国的孩子也会问啊。在这种情况下，SWR的听写方法是会给出具体指示的，即说出表示那个音图的全部音来，孩子就知道是哪个了，因为我们从开始训练音图就是这样做的，而不是一次只教一个音。而且在听写过程中，我们会贯穿拼写规则，也会有帮助的。

但是，必要的记忆也还是需要的。

用一位英文帖子来详细说吧（SWR的）：

There have always been a number of ways to make the same sounds. For example:
/E/ can be made with: "e", "ea", "ee", "ei", "ey", "ie"
This gives us, English speakers, a lot of flexibility in spelling words. It's
one way, we can say a word and have more than one meaning depending upon the
spelling.

"we" have 2 children. You are my "wee" child.
(Other examples are: to, too, and two, be, bee, Aunt Bea and so on).

Anyway,
You are right. You can make sound out "see" by writing "se" or "see". You
could even do it with: �"sea", �"sey" & "sie"
And that is just what English writers did a long time ago. They had the
flexibility to spell words with different spellings so long as they followed the
basic spelling rules for sounds. You can see this when you read some of the
documents from the beginning of our country or older English writings. �

But, there was a man named Noah Webster who lived during the time when America
became a nation. He was a devout Christian and said that God had created
Language and he's a God of order, not chaos. Noah Webster believed that written
English was chaotic and needed to reflect God's order. So, he studied & became
fluent in about 26 languages that impact English and came up with our rules for
Spelling. He also decided which sounds would be used for all our words and
wrote the first American English dictionary.


The rascally British (we thought they were rascals at the time and they thought
we were, but we're good friends now; the rascally British, very soon afterwards,
wrote their own Dictionary of British Spelling called the Oxford Dictionary.
Most words are spelled the same, but there are a handful of differences. �

So, out of the possible spellings, Webster said we'll spell "see" - I can see
you - with the double ee and the "sea" of water with the "ea". � We just have to
memorize which one he chose. As we practice SWR, you'll remember which choices
you have, and as we read and write the word over and over, you'll remember which
phonogram to use.�

Here are some more examples:
/A/.
can be spelled with: a, ai, ay, ea, ei, eigh, ey

So, when we are polite, we say, "May I have ..." which /A/ phonogram do we use?

ma - not this b/c when "a" is at the end of a word, it ususally makes its 3rd
sound (Rule 18)
mai - nope, English words don't end in "i" (Rule 6)
may - yep, this is the spelling for the polite expression
Mae - this uses an advanced phonogram (ae) and it's how we spell the name, Mae
Mey - the name of a castle in Scotland (I don't really know how they pronounce
it)
Meigh - a small village in Ireland (ditto)
mei - can't use that one either (Rule 6)


So, I think you can come up with this same sort of dialogue with whatever
question your child has when asking why one rule-abiding phonogram and not the
other gets used in a word. I think it really gets more complex, such as the
history of a word's spelling, pronunciation & origins (I have the Chambers
Dictionary of Etymologywhich took over the printing of Wanda's recommended
Barnhardt's Etymology book), but I usually don't go there with the kids though I
may look it up for myself. Also, the above story I gave is based upon what I
remember off my SWR seminar and I'll be the first to admit that I may
mis-remember details and I embellish my stories with a bit of historical fiction
(like how the French forgot to take back their spelling of "one" when they left
England). But, as far as I remember, the above story of Webster is fairly
accurate.



也许上面的内容对你没用，但是至少能明白一点，不可能有非常明确的规律告诉你同样发音，到底用哪个拼写形式，但是的有限的拼写规则也还是有作用的。SWR有它的听写方式，象PP, SUPER PHONICS这类教材，只是按word family法列出来，并没有教你如何听写。我所说的听写，不是你报一个词，然后就让孩子自己猜着写。SWR的听写过程是有一定的方法和程序的。如何应用在PP里，前面其实我也写了一点出来了，不同的教材方法，不可能完全套用，只是借鉴一点吧。

[ 本帖最后由 瑜珈 于 2012-7-19 23:27 编辑 ]