（旧贴搬家）关于four, door, soar, more

瑜珈

作者: 瑜珈    时间: 2013-2-8 10:37     标题: 关于four, door, soar, more

因为后面的r，使得前面的元音发生了变化，上面这些词在口语发音时一律都是/or/，但是为什么SWR却要将它们归为/O/呢？这个问题很普遍，在SWR YAHOO GOUP 也是经常被提到，我在儿教、群里也多次说过，群讨论过会就不再保留，而这些又经常被问到，所以我才考虑还是在论坛讨论比较好，请管理员给了我们这块专门的版块。在文心妈妈的记录楼里，也有我的关于这个问题的回贴，再贴些yahoo group 里的英文帖子过来，供各位参考。
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作者: 瑜珈    时间: 2013-2-8 10:39

glory:


Q:  Today we worked on section L-5 and I found it difficult
to explain the word "glory". I am not sure if it is because we
pronounce it incorrectly maybe because English is our
second language.

We would think to divide this word as follow: glor y we
would then underline the or because it is a two letter
phonogram and use y as the substitute for i.

We do not pronounce the word glO ry. I have listened
to dictionary pronunciations at dictionary.com as well
as the Mirriam-Websters online dictionary and they both
sound to myself as if it is pronounced "or" instead of O.
(O is to indicate that it uses the 2nd sound of the
phonogram o).



A:  Great question!  I actually looked this one up in
the dictionary the first time I ran across it in SWR.  
The dictionary actually divides the syllable glo - ry.  
Weird, right?

The phonogram OR is actually two sounds:  /O/ + /r/.  
Say it slowly and hear the two very distinct sounds.  
The reason the phonogram O switches from its most
frequent sound (short vowel /o/) to the long vowel
sound /O/ is because the formation of the /r/ sound
in your mouth affects the vowel proceeding it.  

You say you hear yourself saying /glOr/ /y/.  It feels
weird to divide this word between the O and the R
instead of between the R and the Y.  That's okay if it
feels weird or sounds strange to your ears.  That's
how the word is actually spelled.  We'll utilize that
weirdness to help us remember how to spell it!

We will "think to spell" /glO/ + /ri/* and say it
however we normally say it.  For phonics purposes,
we will attribute the O saying /O/ to Rule 4 even
though phonetically, the O is saying this sound
because it's being influenced by the R coming after it.

*See SWR pp.82-85 for why we think /i/ instead
of /E/ for the Y phonogram.

If you look at derivatives of this word, you see
the syllable break is maintained between the O
and the R.  

glo-ri-fy
glo-ri-fi-ca-tion

Maintaining the proper syllable break will help
in spelling other words as well.  

Liz FitzGerald
Endorsed SWR Trainer
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作者: 瑜珈    时间: 2013-2-8 10:41

more, store:



> Hi there...I had to chuckle about the post saying she dictated the
> wrong list, because in my hurry this week, and not doing these words
> in my own log I gave an incorrect marking for the word more (J-6).   
> I figured it would be underline or and silent E would be odd job.  My
> boys said the same thing before I even told them...then as I look at
> the WISE guide I noticed my error.  The WG says it should be the type
> one silent E, so I told the boys my mistake, and my eldest just
> couldn't wrap his brain around it.  I am wondering if it makes sense
> to them to keep it as or, 2 letter phono plus odd job E, is this okay?

This is such a great reminder for us to work through our Master
Teacher's Logs ahead of the dictation to the children.  When you've
had a chance to do your homework ahead of time, you can avoid
these kinds of errors.  However, in your case, this is a great chance
to think through the logic of this word and its markings with your
son.

In words such as "more" or "store" as it helps to give the E a purpose
for being there. In truth, the O says /O/ because it is being
influenced by the R following it. The R will "flavor" vowels
proceeding it, and the short vowel /o/ changing to /O/ is an
example of when this happens. Therefore, we could mark the
OR as a multiletter phonogram and assign "odd job E" to the
final E. However, it's hard to remember odd job E's because
they don't appear at first glance to have a reason for being
there and are, therefore, more difficult to remember. In the
case of "more" and "store" the suggested marking is the first silent final
E, giving credit to the E for the O changing to its second sound.
I tell the students in my seminars that either marking would be
accurate, although the WISE Guide has the first silent final E
marking listed.

Liz FitzGerald
SWR Trainer
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作者: 瑜珈    时间: 2013-2-8 11:00

door, floor:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SpellToWriteAndRead/message/20928

Q: Why don't "door" and "floor" simply make the "or" sound? Why is it /O/
+/r/? It's impossible to say like that without creating another syllable
(/O/ + /er/). The vowel sound certainly seems to be modified by the r, no?
Words like chore, pour, war, oar seem like rhyming words for floor and door
using /or/.


A:  这个帖子来回比较多，就不一一贴了，可以点以上链接。
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作者: 瑜珈    时间: 2013-2-8 11:14

看到上面的回复贴里还有这位美国妈妈的感想，所以对SWR的一些音图处理方式有疑惑，是非常非常正常的，需要我们慢慢去理解，去体悟， 同时，还要注意不要太钻牛角尖（我也曾经走近过牛角尖，Wanda回复我的一个帖子让我一下子醒悟过来，从此理解了她所说的一切一切）

I have used SWR for several months now, and I have had to throw my old way
of thinking out of the window. That is much easier said than done. I had to
resist the urge to rewrite the program to make it fit into my thinking
process. I am not suggesting that is what you are trying to do; just that
that was the case for me. One thing this group has taught me is that we may
not always know or understand why a word is spelled a certain way. SWR
helps us to spell the words correctly regardless. We can't change the
spelling of a particular word, but we can learn to spell it correctly. The
more I use SWR, the more I understand, and the more I realize that this
program is absolutely ingenious. I am not a trainer; just a mom who is
extremely grateful for this wonderful program, this group, and dear Wanda
for all of her research, effort, and dedication. I hope this helps.

[ 本帖最后由 瑜珈 于 2013-2-8 11:33 编辑 ]
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作者: beibei581    时间: 2013-2-27 15:09

今天突然想起door这个词，就想着怎么读。
用这样的方法读，感觉很奇妙，真是太好了！谢谢瑜伽姐姐！

zhongsu

还看不大懂呢 哎呀

lotusleaf

明白了，感谢。

bailechen

也不知道合适不合适，在这里贸然问一下 778 bur y Y stands in for I: english words do not end with I. Think to spell /ber-i/  请问前辈这里的 r 好像更因该被后面的 y抓走，应该 bu-ry 才对。百思不得其解，谢谢

瑜珈

bu-ry， 还如何　/ber-i/？　 Ｕ usually says  /U/ at the end of syllable.

瑜珈

There are times when we can potentially mark a word more than one way. We try to select the one that gives a stronger aid for remembering spelling. For example, how do we mark the last syllable of "be-fore." It would not be incorrect to under the OR and call this an odd job E. However, the odd job E is the hardest to remember for spelling. We choose to exaggerate it to /f-O-r/ to force the need for the E. Technically the marking would match speech better with it a type five E, for as an aid we find it more powerful to think of it as a type one.