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可汗学院创始人谈美国大学系统的缺点，大学学费的可承受性
采访：编辑Scott Olster 翻译：可汗学院 @KhanAcademy中文志愿者 @枫之蝶
《财富》杂志——美国的学生债务接近一万亿美元的历史记录。毕业即失业的法学院毕业生正在控告他们的母校登出误导广告。毋庸置疑，高等教育的花费——更别提投资后的回报——已经变成了很多人的伤心事。
随着即将来临的选举，奥巴马政府也不敢对这些抱怨充耳不闻。奥巴马在总统的国情咨文中提到了这些，政府发动了一场运动，通过把学校获得联邦援助的可能性与学生能否负担得起该校的学费相挂钩，来阻止大学学费的上涨。这周早些时候，副总统Joe Biden，教育部秘书Arne Duncan和议员John Kerry分别前往几所大学兜售这个计划。在对大学学费可承受性的一片嘘声中，弥漫着一股怀旧之情，一些世界顶级的公立大学——比如，纽约城市大学，加利福尼亚大学——对很多学生都不收学费。
萨尔曼可汗的可汗学院是一家免费的非营利性教育网站，拥有超过2800个视频课程，并得到了像Google（GOOG）和盖茨基金会这样的经济支持。至少在精神层面上来看，它继承了免费教育这一传统。几个月前，当可汗正要在达拉斯举办的州立大学未来论坛上发言的时候，《财富》杂志借机对他进行了采访。整理后的对话记录如下。
《财富》：从你网站上的计数器看来，可汗学院为用户提供课程的次数不久将达到1.2亿次。这些用户有哪些地方最让您感到惊讶？
萨尔•可汗：让我惊讶的是，很多人的学习积极性非常高。一般来说，人们可能不会觉得这些人会是积极好学的学生。他们是被大学和高中开除的孩子，是痛恨学术的学生。
上周我给一帮公司的首席学习官做讲座的时候，一位女士走过来说，“我的先生过去痛恨学校。他有阅读障碍症。他以前是个消防员，但自从开始接触视频课程，他就喜欢上了学习，尤其是数学和物理。他又回到了大学，拿到了数学和物理文凭，还获得了物理学硕士文凭，现在他在教物理。”
所以，事实是很多人被传统学习模式弄的精疲力尽并感到疏离，传统教育模式倾向于在很早的阶段对你进行判断和给你贴标签，不让你按照自己的步伐来学习。
您认为可汗学院提供的服务有何局限性？
主要的局限是我们不能给人授予正式证书。我们收到了很多人的信，说他们不会再去上学了。他们参加考试只是为了拿到证书。我们都知道这种事，我们在上学的时候也是这样。
说到底，我们所能做的就是教学和学习。我们可以给人奖赏和徽章让他们感觉很好，但他们不能把这些放到简历里。
说到简历和证书，现在很多人都可以拿到学位，但有种看法认为，这些东西已经越来越无法代表人们在工作岗位上的表现。对这点，你是怎么看的？
对于现有的教育体系，确实存在这种情况。不论是我们还是Google或者Facebook都不得不实行严格的面试程序，这是因为我们真不知道计算机科学课得了4.0分意味着什么。我觉得重点不在于培养多少具有电子工程或计算机科学专业背景的人，重点是我们如何才能武装人们使他们能在那种环境下发挥的很好。
你如何实现这些呢？
现在，四年制的大学优先考虑的事情是为了考试学习，在你的业余时间或暑假，你才可能去实习。我认为应该反过来，把重点放在实习上。30年前的实习是在邮件收发室工作。现在在Google实习是要对算法进行优化，这点大学的研究者都无没有做过。今年暑假期间，我们聘用的实习生所做的工作涉及到的理论要比他们的课程作业精确严谨得多。所以当我说到实习的时候，并不是给老板泡咖啡或收收邮件那样简单。
许多大学，特别是公立大学，都面临着政府补助的缩减，同时还得做好准备，应对未来进一步的经费削减。你觉得这对可汗学院会产生什么影响？
我想说的事实是，如果有人希望一满18岁就参加工作，帮助供养家庭，他们可以通过可汗学院或其他途径，按照自己的进度安排学习，并借助相关测试，通过自己的努力获得必要的学分如果有人希望一满18岁就参加工作，帮助供养家庭，他们可以通过可汗学院或其他途径，按照自己的进度安排学习，并借助相关测试，通过自己的努力获得必要的学分。他们也许还得在学校的实验室工作一个学期。我们这类学习机构就能满足这样的学习者。这种模式对所有人来说都是好事。
话说回来，很多人的工作和他们所得到的学分没有多大关系，却和他们在学校里遇到的人有关系。
我同意这点。我觉得最有力的证据就是商学院。我认为商学院有一点做的好的就是他们懂得自己要变成什么样的人。但人们也明白商学院只是一个选择。你可以说他是一个有力的工具，就像去一个花哨的预备学校——比如安多弗（Andover）或者埃克赛特（Exeter）——这很好。但是，我们必须承认，并不是每个人都能有这种机会。
你会坚持可汗学院的免费教育理念么？
是的。我们的核心任务就是保证可汗学院的课程都是免费的。我们多教一个学生的增量成本是0或者接近0。所以我们的任务是不应该设置门槛。
我思考过可汗学院作为盈利机构或者非盈利机构的结局，作为盈利机构的话，结局是我们拥有很多客户，我们有很多盈利，可能会被收购或者找到出路，进行首次公开募股，我就会成为富翁。这是件不错的事。但作为非盈利性机构的结局是我们希望成为新一代教育机构里的斯坦福（Stanford）或者麻省理工学院（MIT），但这个品牌不是建立在对生源的苛刻要求上，而是建立在提供高质量课程的基础上，我们希望未来的用户数量能达到百万、千万，甚至几十亿，从而打造一个百年教育品牌。
附：原文
Sal Khan: Building a better university
February 8, 2012: 11:06 AM ET
The Khan Academy founder discusses the flaws of the U.S. university system, college affordability, and what he's looking for in a job candidate.
Interview by Scott Olster, editor
FORTUNE -- Student debt is nearing a record $1 trillion in the U.S. Jobless law school grads are suing their alma maters for false advertising. Needless to say, the cost of higher education -- not to mention the return on the investment -- has become a sore spot for many.
With an election on the horizon, the Obama Administration has not been deaf to the grumbling. The president addressed the topic in his State of the Union, and his administration has since launched a campaign to stem the rise in college tuition by tying a school's federal aid prospects to its affordability. Vice President Joe Biden, Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, and Senator John Kerry were dispatched to university campuses earlier this week to tout the plan. In all the tut-tut over college affordability, there been some nostalgia for the time when some world-class, public universities -- The City University of New York and The University of California, for example -- didn't charge any tuition for many of its students.
Salman Khan's Khan Academy-- a free, nonprofit education site with more than 2,800 video lessons and financial backing from the likes of Google (GOOG) and the Gates Foundation -- has picked up this mantle, at least in spirit. Fortune caught up with Khan a few months ago while he was just about to speak at the Future of State Universities Conference in Dallas. Here is an edited transcript of the conversation.
Fortune: Judging from the counter on your site, it looks like Khan Academy is not too far away from delivering its 120-millionth lesson. What has surprised you the most about all those users?
Sal Khan: I've been surprised at how motivated a lot of people are that you wouldn't traditionally think would be that kind of a motivated student. They were the kid who failed out of college, failed out of high school, hated academics.
I gave a talk last week to a bunch of chief learning officers from companies and one woman came by and said, "My husband hated school. He's dyslexic. He was a fireman and he just started watching the videos and he got really into it. He got really into math, really into physics. Went back to college, got a math degree and a physics degree, a master's in physics, and is now teaching physics."
And so, it's this reality that there are people like that out there that have completely gotten frustrated and disengaged with the traditional model that tends to judge you and label you in very early stages and really doesn't let you learn at your own pace.
What would you say are the limitations of what you are offering at Khan Academy?
The main limitation is we're not granting people formal credentials. We get a lot of letters from people, they're not going to class anymore. And they're just showing up to take an exam to get a credential. And we all know that happens. We did a little bit of that ourselves in college.
At the end of the day, the most that we can do is teach and learn. We can give someone rewards and badges to make them feel good, but they can't put that on their resumes just yet.
Speaking of resumes and credentials, it seems like more people are getting degrees, but they say less and less about how well someone will perform on the job. What's your take?
It's a bit of a statement on the existing system that us or Google or Facebook have to have such a rigorous interview process because we really don't know what a 4.0 in computer science means any more. I think the conversation has to go beyond getting more people to major in electrical engineering or computer science. The conversation is how do we equip people so that they can actually perform well in that type of environment?
How would you pull that off?
Right now, the priority in a four-year institution is to learn things for exams and in your spare time and your summers you might be able to do an internship. I actually think that should be flipped around. I think the focus should be doing internships. An internship 30 years ago was working the mailroom. An internship today at Google is optimizing an algorithm that researchers at universities don't even have access to. I would say the interns that we had this past summer were doing far more rigorous theory than they would do in their coursework. So when I say internship, it's not getting coffee for the boss or stocking mail.
Many universities, especially public ones, are dealing with painful cuts in government funding and bracing for the possibility of more to come. How do you think that affects what you are trying to do at Khan Academy?
I'd like to see a reality where if someone wants to work when they turn 18 to help support their family and they learn at their own pace on something like the Khan Academy or other things, that they can just on their own get a bunch of the credits they need just by testing out of things. And maybe they have to show up on campus for a semester of labs or something. You're getting a person like that to the end point that they need to get to, in a way that's actually good for everybody.
Then again, so many people land jobs in a way that has very little to do with academic merit. It has to do with the people that they meet while they were at school.
I agree with that. I think the strongest argument there is business school. I think the one thing business school does very well is that they kind of understand that that's what they are about. But I think society has recognized that business school is an optional thing. What you are describing is a powerful tool, just as going to a fancy prep school -- going to Andover or Exeter -- is great. But that's not something that we necessarily have to say everyone has to have access to….
Is the idea to keep Khan Academy free going forward?
Yes. It is core to our mission in that the learning part of Khan Academy will always be free. The incremental cost for us to teach an incremental student is zero or close to zero. So it's our mission that we shouldn't put a gate there.
When I thought about the two home run outcomes as a for-profit or as a not-for-profit, as a for-profit, a home run outcome for Khan Academy is we reach a bunch of users, we capture a bunch of revenue, maybe we get acquired or we have some type of an exit, an IPO, and Sal will be rich. That's not bad, not a bad thing. But the home run as a not-for-profit institution is just maybe we can be this new breed of institution that is kind of like a Stanford or MIT, but the brand isn't built purely on its selectivity. The brand is based on its quality of what it's delivering and it can reach millions, or maybe one day billions, of students and maybe be around for hundreds of years. |
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狗仔卡
楼主
发表于 2012-10-12 15:28:39
那会让更多的孩子受益啊